Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/17/1998 09:10 AM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
      SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE                   
                          April 17, 1998                                       
                            9:10 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Senator Gary Wilken, Chairman                                                  
Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman                                             
Senator Lyda Green                                                             
Senator Jerry Ward                                                             
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                           
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 367 am                                                          
"An Act relating to part-time public school students; and providing            
for an effective date."                                                        
     HEARD AND HELD                                                            
                                                                               
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                               
                                                                               
HB 367 am - No previous Senate committee action.                               
                                                                               
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
                                                                               
Representative Fred Dyson                                                      
Alaska State Capitol                                                           
Juneau, Alaska  99811-1182                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 367                                         
                                                                               
Lisa Torkelson                                                                 
Staff to Representative Dyson                                                  
Alaska State Capitol                                                           
Juneau, Alaska  99811-1182                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding HB 367 am                    
                                                                               
Robert Yahara                                                                  
P.O. Box 230129                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska  99523                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 367 am                                        
                                                                               
Eddy Jeans                                                                     
Manager, School Finance Section                                                
Department of Education                                                        
801 W 10th Street, Suite 200                                                   
Juneau, Alaska  99801-1894                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  No stated position on HB 367 am                           
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 98-35, SIDE A                                                             
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social                 
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 9:10 a.m.  Present were                  
Senators Ward, Leman, and Chairman Wilken.  The committee took up              
HB 367 am.  Senator Green arrived at 9:11 a.m.                                 
                                                                               
      HB 367 - PART-TIME PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT ENROLLMENT                      
                                                                               
Representative Fred Dyson, sponsor of HB 367, and Lisa Torkelson,              
staff to Representative Dyson, presented HB 367 to the committee as            
follows.  In some sense, HB 367 is an unnecessary bill.  Last year             
the Legislature passed a bill prohibiting discrimination against               
part-time students.  The language in that law provides that part-              
time students can only be denied enrollment in a class or other                
educational opportunity if full-time students are denied enrollment            
on the same basis.  The Legislature fully expected that the Alaska             
Department of Education (DOE) would change its regulations to                  
conform with that law.  The State Board of Education has calendared            
the subject of a regulation change in regard to this issue for its             
mid-summer meeting.  After the law was enacted, the Anchorage                  
School Board decided to continue its policy of making part-time                
students "go to the back of the line."  No other school board has              
adopted that same policy.  School boards around the state deal with            
part-time students with varying degrees of enthusiasm. The                     
Fairbanks North Star Borough School District has been very                     
accommodating and the Sitka and Mat-Su School Districts have made              
an art form of providing better services to every student in their             
districts.  HB 367 was introduced to put a hammer on DOE and the               
Anchorage School Board.  HB 367 tightens up the law and requires               
that the regulations be changed to reflect the intent of last                  
year's bill.  The Anchorage School District has approximately                  
45,000 students; only 94 are part-time, therefore accommodating the            
part-time students should not cause any significant impact.                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON discussed a few practical matters raised by               
educators.  For instance, when a senior needs a class to meet                  
graduation requirements, that senior should be given priority over             
a junior.  Last year's bill prohibits discrimination against part-             
time students only on the basis that the students are part-time.               
School districts have questioned how they will schedule students               
without knowing the number of part-time students that will enroll.             
The answer is to require part-time students to meet the same                   
standards as full-time students for early enrollment.  In his                  
district, 25 percent of students are new to the district each year.            
District demographers have learned to predict the number of classes            
that will be needed, so this problem is largely non-existent.  One             
school superintendent stated that giving preferential treatment to             
full-time students is not discriminatory, i.e., out-of-state                   
college students pay higher tuition.  That argument is contrary to             
our responsibility for all children in the state under Alaska's                
Constitution.                                                                  
                                                                               
Number 115                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN stated HB 367 am is consistent with the legislative              
intent of the measure that passed last year.  He noted he is                   
disappointed that the law was not implemented according to that                
intent and he supports this measure.                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked Representative Dyson why language on lines 11              
through 13 on page 1, which state that the bill does not pertain to            
extracurricular and interscholastic activities, was included.                  
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied when he put the bill together last                
year he chose to deal with academics only, as he did not want to               
take on the issue of extracurricular activities.  He believes the              
Constitution makes clear that academics are the State's                        
responsibility for education, so he thought every school district              
could decide its standards for interscholastic and extracurricular             
activities.  HB 367 was amended on the House floor by the Majority             
leader to reinforce that the bill applies to academics only.  He               
stated he would be delighted if the committee wants to amend the               
bill and remove that section.                                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN thought the House floor amendment was unfortunate                
because she had introduced legislation a few years ago to provide              
home schoolers the opportunity to enroll in after school                       
activities, and to require consistent policies within districts                
regarding enrollment in those activities.  She noted Alaska has                
strong activity standards but different school districts have                  
different policies, which she believes is wrong.  She stated she               
believes any student should be able to participate in                          
extracurricular activities.                                                    
                                                                               
Number 167                                                                     
                                                                               
MS. TORKELSON commented last year, when the Legislature was dealing            
with HB 158, it heard a lot of opposition to the bill because of               
the extracurricular activity problem.  That concern was a moot                 
point because the bill did not address extracurricular activities.             
Representative Dyson's intent is to take on the issue of academics             
first, and then sometime down the road deal with the issue of                  
extracurricular activities. She explained ASAA, the interscholastic            
activity group that each district belongs to, sets the policy on               
extracurricular activities.                                                    
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN responded ASAA only has the authority given them by              
its member organizations, and it is not a governing body.  She                 
repeated that her main concern is that the extracurricular policy              
is inconsistent and arbitrary within districts and throughout the              
state.                                                                         
                                                                               
Number 199                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he is very sympathetic to Senator Green's            
position but including that position in the bill will enlist a                 
whole new group of enemies.  He stated it is a battle he is willing            
to fight but he is not sure that now is the time to do it.                     
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN said she would like to address the issue next year.              
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated it gives some weight to a quasi-                   
constitutional objection that people have.  The objection heard                
last year was that if extracurricular activities are included, the             
result will be that a church-related school, across the street from            
a public high school, can offer what it wants to and then send its             
students to the high school to participate in the band, etc.  That             
arrangement will create a de facto support for a sectarian school              
that does not have to spend funds on an interscholastic football               
program or other extracurricular activities because it can                     
"freeload" off of the public schools.  REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said               
those who support that argument do not think that taxpayers, who               
send their children to private schools, should get a tax break on              
the school taxes they pay.                                                     
                                                                               
Number 222                                                                     
                                                                               
ROBERT YAHARA testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He                 
stated he supports HB 367 am and believes that it is important that            
part-time students be able to utilize public school facilities.  He            
did not think it is the intention of home schoolers or church-                 
related school students to get de facto support for sectarian                  
schools, but rather to get equal access.   All property owners pay             
taxes to support the mandated government school system and all                 
parents want the opportunity to benefit from those taxes.  He hopes            
the 40,000 young people in the public school system get a good,                
moral-based education that will help them to mature and become good            
citizens, and to be able to enjoy family relationships and other               
important things.  He noted this is the first testimony he has                 
given via teleconference.  He thanked the committee and urged them             
to support HB 367 am.                                                          
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN stated he has been surprised to see how much                   
legislators rely on the teleconference network in Juneau, and                  
thanked Mr. Yahara for taking the time to testify.                             
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Yahara if he has a daughter named Shelly.              
                                                                               
MR. YAHARA said he does, and that she attended Grace Community                 
Christian School.                                                              
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked how HB 367 am might have changed Shelly's                  
education, especially in regard to having the opportunity to tap               
into the music program in the public school.                                   
                                                                               
MR. YAHARA replied that not knowing what avenues were available, he            
never looked into it.  He has other children attending school, ages            
15, 13, and 11, and given this option he would look at alternatives            
to see what might work for them.                                               
                                                                               
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                            
[END OF TAPE]                                                                  
                                                                               
TAPE 98-36, SIDE A                                                             
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN commented that his understanding last year was that            
a part-time student had to sit on the sideline until space was                 
available in the class.  He asked Representative Dyson if schools              
are mandated to educate a part-time student under this bill, will              
the state pick up the responsibility for that child at the end of              
the process, so that when it comes time for the home schooler to               
graduate, will the public school owe that child the opportunity to             
take the exit exam and grant him/her a diploma.                                
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied it will not.  If a part-time student              
wants to  enroll in a class that is full with 28 students, HB 367              
am will only require that the part-time student not be treated any             
differently than a full-time student who might also want entry into            
the class.  If the class can accommodate more students, fine, but              
if not, then whatever criteria is used to decide whether to start              
a new class must be applied to both students.  He repeated that HB
367 am is an anti-discrimination bill.                                         
                                                                               
SENATOR WILKEN indicated he sensed some reluctance on behalf of the            
state to pick up responsibility for home schoolers when the bill               
was heard last year, because there was no way to assess or monitor             
those students' progress.  He noted he was surprised that, at the              
end of the process, no diploma is given.  He asked if DOE has                  
stated any position on this bill as to its responsibility.                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied he has spoken to several of the                   
alternative education groups about whether they would like to                  
participate in the state testing process so that their students can            
receive diplomas, but the jury is still out on that question.  He              
guessed that some of those groups will choose to do so as another              
way of authenticating a student's performance that might be                    
valuable to an employer or a college.                                          
                                                                               
MS. TORKELSON added that many home schoolers were leery about the              
exit exam because they did not have enough information about it.               
At this time, they prefer to get a GED.  Regarding the question of             
whether home schoolers would get a high school diploma, the home               
schooled student must take the required classes given at that                  
school to meet the district's requirements to get a diploma.                   
Taking a few classes at a public school does not make a home                   
schooled student eligible for a diploma from that district.                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Mr. Jeans if, in DOE's opinion, by allowing              
part-time students to take classes at public schools, those                    
students will fall under the state mandate to provide for the                  
education of students thereby requiring public schools to monitor              
their progress and pick up the responsibility at the end for their             
education.                                                                     
                                                                               
EDDY JEANS, School Finance Manager of DOE, stated DOE has not had              
those discussions.  He believed the public school classes would be             
viewed as a supplement to the educational program of part-time                 
students.                                                                      
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked that DOE submit any comments it has on that              
issue to him.  He also asked Mr. Jeans if a correspondence student             
who takes one class at a public school would actually be funded as             
more than one full time student.                                               
                                                                               
MR. JEANS replied within a school district's home boundaries, DOE              
has taken the position that the district can only claim the student            
once (as one FTE), however in some instances, students are enrolled            
in statewide correspondence programs as full-time students, and                
also attend a community school.  Those students would be counted on            
a fractional basis which could generate more than one FTE.                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN stated, as a general policy, he did not think DOE              
would want a student to count as more than one FTE in any case.                
                                                                               
MR. JEANS responded he was not sure he could agree because the                 
educational institute providing those services should be                       
compensated for doing so.  He noted a student might be taking                  
correspondence courses to supplement his/her full-time public                  
school attendance to graduate one year earlier.  He stated DOE                 
would either pay the cost in a three year period or spread it over             
four years.                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Mr. Jeans if, from his perspective, HB 367 am            
would not create any double accounting problems or inflated student            
count problems.                                                                
                                                                               
MR. JEANS maintained double counting could occur, but it is not as             
big of an issue as people make it out to be.                                   
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if there is a way to quantify what the state             
may be exposing itself to.                                                     
                                                                               
MR. JEANS replied DOE does not currently collect information on                
part-time students.  The only way DOE could monitor what students              
are doing would be to create a statewide system of student                     
identifiers so that it could track which courses students are                  
taking and the status of the student's educational program.                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated that one school district was adamant               
about not taking part-time students until it was approached by two             
boys who were correspondence students who weighed over 240 pounds.             
The football coach was easily able to get the district to change               
its policy toward part-time students.                                          
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced he would hold the bill over until                    
Wednesday, at 9:00 a.m., and then adjourned the meeting.                       
                                                                               

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